Christian or Godly Nation?

This is a response to a friends questions: Monday Dialogue request: IS America a Christian Nation or Godly Nation and does it make any difference? How would either definition impact "our" government

Considering Roger Williams' experience in the early days of this country, our concept of their concept is probably much broader and more inclusive than theirs. They left a place of persecution, but, as is often the case, they did not leave persecution, they brought it with them and practiced it.

Our society is much closer to the ideals we see in their writings than was theirs. Consider who gets to vote, own land, worship or not worship...

Much as the ideals we find in the Bible would mostly be foreign to the people who lived in Bible times, I believe many of the truths we hold self-evident would be foreign to the founding fathers.

To really answer the questions posed we'd have to spend some time on a little project that usually really irks people who just want to get to the conclusion(s): definition of terms.

You've touched on it a bit. What do you mean "Christian" or "Godly"? Make a difference in what way, to whom? Impact our government? If it's a reality in our country it can't not impact the government, then we can discuss to what extent in what way.

If by Christian, we mean (as another Beltz had us define in English class one day) follower of / following Christ, we come to What aspects of Christ? How far? Do we dress as He did? Do we own property as He did? Do we engage in vocations/avocations as he did? Do we follow Biblical principles and standards?

Not really. Few of us dress as he did. Most of us own and earn more. Are we as kind? When people come to us for help to we tell them the dogs shouldn't eat before the children? Do we call the leaders snakes, preparing people for hell, or do we even tolerate others doing this?

Re: Biblical standards, How do we deal with people selling themselves or their children as slaves? How many wives should a man have? How do deal with prostitution? How do we define adultery?

Paul wrote that God winked at wrong doing in the past. Do we follow suit? Do we forgive as God did? Do we punish as God did, to the 3rd and 4th generation? If we found a president was the most evil president we'd ever had, would we tell him we were going to kill him? If he felt really sad about that (not repentant, but sad) would we decide to not kill him, but let him live out his term and then kill his son? God did these things. Read Kings.

Before we decide if we even want to be a Christian or Godly nation, I think we might want to talk about what the terms might mean.

We could, as God has done, allow people to choose to live as they please. We could provide for the just and the unjust.

Just as the principles and ideals of the founding fathers, especially as we understand them today, were not always lived out or adhered to in their day, what we consider Biblical standards and Godly ideals were not always lived out in Biblical days.

I realized the other day that what we consider solid is mostly not solid. Stone is mostly space, with a little bit of relatively solid matter held together by some amazing bonds. God's people in the Bible were mostly not living up to His standards or ideals, but the few who did are bound together by some interesting bonds. In the church today, most of the people are not living up to the ideals, really. But, in all these things, the point is not how many live up to the ideals, but that the ideals, or the solid matter, or the attempts to live up to the ideals, are worthwhile, worth using, worth pursuing.

The AA phrase "God as we understood him" used to really bother me. I thought it was a cop-out, a way to marginalize God. Today I realize that we all approach (or don't) and conceive or consider God as we understand him. And that understanding can vary widely, even within a small group, even among people of the same religion and denomination.

Don't know what grade I'll get on this, but I think you're stirring the pot, and that can make some good stew.

The System as a Snowball

"Is the system so big it's like a snowball that can't be broken apart?" asked a friend works in healthcare. The question was borne of the frustration of watching hundreds of hours spent trying to appease a spoiled client.

Fortunately, I know something about snowballs.

Yes, the system is so big it's like a snowball, and current national leadership is pushing that ball over the top of a very large hill. As it crests the hill and rolls down it will pick up momentum and mass. It will grow.

Can it be broken apart? A snowball can be small enough to fit in a hand or it can be large enough to be the base of a snowman, and be too large to lift or even move. Yet, a snowball is still just a bunch of flakes packed together. Some stick together more than others. Some are easier to change.

You don't have to lift the whole ball to affect it,or even to break it apart. You can dig into it. You can carve off part of it. You can pack in fresh snow to patch it together. You can affect a snowball.

Ice balls, however, are not only hard, they tend to be one-piece masses of frozen water. Snowballs can be icy, but they are still a conglomeration of smaller entities packed together. Ice balls have been so changed that they are no longer small entities packed together. Those small entities have changed states and become one large mass that can not be easily affected. It has not only a hard shell, but is hard clear through.

Right now, the system is a snowball, it can be reshaped, it can be broken apart, it can be salvaged and still be useful. We'd better get to it though, because the heat is coming, followed by a big freeze that may well change the state of the whole system.